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21st October 2001

Part 1

Part 2 >>> Part 3 >>> Part 4

Background of the interview - see report and analysis in Transnational Broadcasting Studies, February 2002:

A Discussion on the New Crusader Wars
Tayseer Allouni with Usamah bin Laden

This interview was obtained from Markaz Derasat and translated by 'Muawiya Ibn Abi Sufyan'

Source: http://www.islamicawakening.com/
We thank Islamic Awakening for granting permission to use and display material from their website (the following text comes entirely from that that website, including the introduction).

The following interview is approximately one hour long and has been conducted outdoors on October 21st, 2001 in a tent by the Kabul correspondent of Al-Jazeera, Tayseer Allouni, who has been stationed there with his family for about 2 years, making him the only TV reporter with broadcast access to be allowed on the streets of Kabul and Kandahar. It should be also noted that he is the only journalist to have met with Commander Mullah `Umar, Shaykh Usamah bin Laden and many other talibs. He is originally from Syria, but presently living in Spain.

This was translated because it is a real goldmine for the ones who want to understand the Mujaahideen's political and religious way of thinking. It is a shame that Al-Jazeera refused to air this, for dull reasons which won't escape the attentive reader. Out of all of the footage released after September 11th, this interview is the one piece of footage to receive the least amount of attention. It was never shown in full, nor talked about in great depth. In a brief 5-minute story bit on this interview, CNN quoted the following [exact translation they used]:

* "The battle has moved to inside America. We will continue this battle, God permitting, until victory or until we meet God."
* "I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people and the West in general into an unbearable hell and a choking life."
* "America has made many accusations against us and many other Muslims around the world. Its charge that we are carrying out acts of terrorism is unwarranted."
* "If inciting people to do that is terrorism, and if killing those who kill our sons is terrorism, then let history be witness that we are terrorists."
* "These diseases are a punishment from God and a response to oppressed mothers prayers in Lebanon, Iraq, Palestine and everywhere."
* "We kill the kings of the infidels, kings of the crusaders and civilian infidels in exchange for those of our children they kill. This is permissible in Islamic law and logically." ... "So we kill their innocents, and I say it is permissible in Islamic law and logic."
* "They made hilarious claims. They said that Osama's messages have codes in them to the terrorists. It's as if we were living in the time of mail by carrier pigeon, when there were no phones, no travellers, no Internet, no regular mail, no express mail and no electronic mail. I mean, these are very humorous things. They discount people's intellects."
* "We believe that the defeat of America is posible, with the help of God, and is even easier for us -- God permitting -- than the defeat of the Soviet Union was."
* "Our brothers, who were here in Afghanistan, tested them [the Americans], and together with some of the mujahadeen in Somalia, God granted them victory. America exited dragging its tails in failure, defeat, and ruin."

*Interview Begins*

Usamah bin Laden: May Allah greet you [hayyakallah].

Tayseer Allouni: A question that is repeated on the tongues of a lot of people all around the world: The USA claims that it has convincing proof of your involvement in the events of New York and Washington. What is your answer to that?

UBL: Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the worlds. May Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon Muhammad, his pure family and his noble Companions.

To proceed: As to its description that these acts were terroristic, then that description is wrong. These young men, whom Allah has cleared the way for, they have shifted the battle to the heart of the United States and they have destroyed its most outstanding [abraz] landmarks, their economic landmarks and their military landmarks, that being with the grace of Allah [dhalika fadlu allah]. And they have done this from what we understand, and we have incited and roused for this [harradna] before, and it is in self-defense, defense of our brothers and sons in Palestine and for freeing our holy sites. And if inciting [tahrid] for this is terrorism, and if killing the ones that kill our sons is terrorism, then let history witness that we are terrorists.

TA: Alright, but Shaykh, those who monitor your speeches and documents have connected the oath you have given recently, and you have said word for word: "I swear by Allah Almighty, Who lifted the sky without effort, that America will never enjoy safety, until safety becomes a reality for us living in Palestine." So, it is easy for any follower of these events to connect between the terrorist events that happened in New York and Washington and that previous statement. So what is your opinion on these sayings?

UBL: Making connections is easy. If it implies that we have incited for this, then yes, we've been inciting for years, and we released legal rulings [fataawa] and documents concerning this issue, and other incitements which were published and broadcasted in the media. So if they mean, or if you mean, that there is connection due to the incitement, then that is true. So we incite, and incitement is appointed [muta`ayyin] today, and Allah has asked it from the best of humans, the Prophet (sallallahu `alayhi wasallam).
Allah (subhannahu wa ta`aala) said:

"Then fight O Muhammad (sallallahu `alayhi wasallam) in the Cause of Allah, you are not tasked (held responsible) except for yourself, and incite the believers (to fight along with you), it may be that Allah will restrain the evil might of the disbelievers. And Allah is Stronger in Might and Stronger in punishing." [Qur'an (4):84]

And what He meant as the goal for the disbelievers is fighting and combat. So that connection is right, that we have incited and roused for the killing of Americans and Jews. That is true.

TA: Alright, Shaykh Usamah bin Laden, the al-Qai`dah Organization is facing today a state that dominates the world militarily, politically, and technologically. So with what reason does the al-Qai`dah Organization, whose material capabilities don't precisely come close to the capabilities that the USA has, so with what logic can an organization, like al-Qai`dah, defeat the USA militarily for example?

UBL: Alhamdulillah... I say that the battle isn't between the al-Qai`dah Organization [tanzeem al-Qai`dah] and the world Crusaders. The battle is between Muslims - the people of Islam - and the world Crusaders. And that organization, with the grace of Allah [bifadlillah], used to be with our Afghan Mujaahideen brothers, and the people used to say words like this and even stronger: "How could you defeat the Soviet Empire ?" And at that time, the Soviet Empire was a force that was very, very strong, which scared the whole world and NATO used to shake in fear in front of the Soviet Empire. So where is that strong force that Allah (subhannahu wa ta`aala) has sent toward us [manna allahu `alayna] and our Mujaahideen brothers ?

The Soviet Empire has become - with Allah's grace - a figment of the imagination [athran ba`da `ayn, lit. traces before the eye]. Today, there is no more Soviet Empire, it split into smaller states and Russia is left. So the One (Allah) who prolonged us with one of His helping Hands and stabilized us (subhannahu wa ta`aala) to defeat the Soviet Empire, is capable (subhannahu wa ta`aala) to prolong us again and to allow us to defeat America on the same land (subhannahu wa ta`aala), and with the same sayings, and that is the grace of Allah [waa dhaalika fadlullah] (subhannahu wa ta`aala). So we believe that the defeat of America is something achievable - with the permission of Allah (subhannahu wa ta`aala) - and it is easier on us - with the permission of Allah (subhannahu wa ta`aala) - than the defeat of the Soviet Empire previously.

TA: How do you think it's easy? Why do you think it's easier?

UBL: We have tried...like our brothers who have engaged in battle with the Americans, similar to the example in Somalia. We have not found before a force that can be mentioned. There is a very huge awe [haala] about America, which it uses to scare people before it engages the battle. So our brothers that were here in Afghanistan tried, and Allah has cleared the path for them with some of the Mujaahideen in Somalia. So America left, dragging behind the tails of humiliation, defeat and loss, without turning back for anything [tajurru athyaal alkhayba wal hazimah wal khusraan laa talwee `alaa shay'], and it retreated before expected, and it forgot all that great media hype about the New World Order, and how it was the master of that order, and that it can do whatever it pleases. It forgot all those facts, and it picked up its armies and it retreated in defeat with Allah's grace (subhannahu wa ta`aala). So we tried combat against the Russians, from '79 until '89, 10 years - with the grace of Allah (subhannahu wa ta`aala) - then we continued against the Communists in Afghanistan. Today we are at the end of the second week, and what a difference like night and day between both battles [shattaana shattaana bayna al-ma`rakatayn]. So we implore Allah (subhannahu wa ta`aala) to prolong us with one of His helping Hands [yamduduna bimadadin min `indihi] and to break America, for He is capable of that.

TA: Alright Shaykh, in connection to the land, you have said that we will defeat America on this land. Don't you think that the existance of the al-Qai`dah Organization on the land of Afghanistan is making the Afghan people pay a high price?

UBL: Well, that view is partial and incomplete, and only from one angle. When we first came to Afghanistan, and when we came to give victory to the Mujaahideen when the Russians entered, in 1399H (1979AD), the Saudi government officially asked us to not enter Afghanistan. Due to my entry to Afghanistan, and due to my family's closeness to the Saudi governmental system, a letter arrived commanding Usamah not to enter Afghanistan, and to stay with the Muhaajireen (immigrants) in Peshawar, because in case the Russians were to imprison or capture Usamah, then that would be proof showing Saudi backing of the Mujaahideen against the Soviet Empire. And during that time, the whole world shook in fear from the Soviet Empire, and I am not exaggerating about this prohibition (to enter Afghanistan), so from their point of view, this seemed damaging to them. They were forced because of their opinions.

So when we came to the Afghans during the first time, we endured what we had to endure, in desire to liven the Islamic self [li ihyaa' al-nafs al-muslima], and to safekeep the Muslim children and offspring here, and for victory for the religion [deen]. And that is a duty on all the Muslims, not just the Afghans. So if I went, or some of my brothers that came for jihaad, acted upon this duty, (which is) to bring victory to our brothers in Palestine, then that does not mean that Usamah alone has to endure this, but it is a duty [waajib] on all of the Islamic Nation [ummah] to endure this, because it is in the Way of Allah [feesabilillah] and jihaad is designated [muta`ayyin] today on all of us, on the Afghans and others, and it is true that they endure, but this is an Islamic duty [waajib shar`i] and it is a duty for them and others to support this [feesabilillah]....


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