WITH USAMAH BIN LADEN
21st October 2001
Discussion on the New Crusader Wars
Tayseer Allouni with Usamah bin Laden
interview was obtained from Markaz
Derasat and translated by 'Muawiya Ibn Abi Sufyan'
We thank Islamic
Awakening for granting permission to use and display material
from their website (the following text comes entirely from that
that website, including the introduction).
interview is approximately one hour long and has been conducted
outdoors on October 21st, 2001 in a tent by the Kabul correspondent
Tayseer Allouni, who has been stationed there with his family
for about 2 years, making him the only TV reporter with broadcast
access to be allowed on the streets of Kabul and Kandahar. It
should be also noted that he is the only journalist to have
met with Commander Mullah `Umar, Shaykh Usamah bin Laden and
many other talibs. He is originally from Syria, but presently
living in Spain.
translated because it is a real goldmine for the ones who want
to understand the Mujaahideen's political and religious way
of thinking. It is a shame that Al-Jazeera refused to air this,
for dull reasons which won't escape the attentive reader. Out
of all of the footage released after September 11th, this interview
is the one piece of footage to receive the least amount of attention.
It was never shown in full, nor talked about in great depth.
In a brief 5-minute story bit on this interview, CNN quoted
the following [exact translation they used]:
battle has moved to inside America. We will continue this
battle, God permitting, until victory or until we meet God."
* "I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are
doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people
and the West in general into an unbearable hell and a choking
* "America has made many accusations against us and many
other Muslims around the world. Its charge that we are carrying
out acts of terrorism is unwarranted."
* "If inciting people to do that is terrorism, and if
killing those who kill our sons is terrorism, then let history
be witness that we are terrorists."
* "These diseases are a punishment from God and a response
to oppressed mothers prayers in Lebanon, Iraq, Palestine and
* "We kill the kings of the infidels, kings of the crusaders
and civilian infidels in exchange for those of our children
they kill. This is permissible in Islamic law and logically."
... "So we kill their innocents, and I say it is permissible
in Islamic law and logic."
* "They made hilarious claims. They said that Osama's
messages have codes in them to the terrorists. It's as if
we were living in the time of mail by carrier pigeon, when
there were no phones, no travellers, no Internet, no regular
mail, no express mail and no electronic mail. I mean, these
are very humorous things. They discount people's intellects."
* "We believe that the defeat of America is posible,
with the help of God, and is even easier for us -- God permitting
-- than the defeat of the Soviet Union was."
* "Our brothers, who were here in Afghanistan, tested
them [the Americans], and together with some of the mujahadeen
in Somalia, God granted them victory. America exited dragging
its tails in failure, defeat, and ruin."
May Allah greet you [hayyakallah].
Allouni: A question that is repeated on the tongues of
a lot of people all around the world: The USA claims that
it has convincing proof of your involvement in the events
of New York and Washington. What is your answer to that?
Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the worlds. May Allah's Peace
and Blessings be upon Muhammad, his pure family and his noble
to its description that these acts were terroristic, then that
description is wrong. These young men, whom Allah has cleared
the way for, they have shifted the battle to the heart of the
United States and they have destroyed its most outstanding [abraz]
landmarks, their economic landmarks and their military landmarks,
that being with the grace of Allah [dhalika fadlu allah].
And they have done this from what we understand, and we have
incited and roused for this [harradna] before, and it
is in self-defense, defense of our brothers and sons in Palestine
and for freeing our holy sites. And if inciting [tahrid]
for this is terrorism, and if killing the ones that kill our
sons is terrorism, then let history witness that we are terrorists.
Alright, but Shaykh, those who monitor your speeches and documents
have connected the oath you have given recently, and you have
said word for word: "I swear by Allah Almighty, Who lifted
the sky without effort, that America will never enjoy safety,
until safety becomes a reality for us living in Palestine."
So, it is easy for any follower of these events to connect
between the terrorist events that happened in New York and
Washington and that previous statement. So what is your opinion
on these sayings?
Making connections is easy. If it implies that we have incited
for this, then yes, we've been inciting for years, and we released
legal rulings [fataawa] and documents concerning this
issue, and other incitements which were published and broadcasted
in the media. So if they mean, or if you mean, that there is
connection due to the incitement, then that is true. So we incite,
and incitement is appointed [muta`ayyin] today, and Allah
has asked it from the best of humans, the Prophet (sallallahu
Allah (subhannahu wa ta`aala) said:
fight O Muhammad (sallallahu `alayhi wasallam) in the
Cause of Allah, you are not tasked (held responsible) except
for yourself, and incite the believers (to fight along with
you), it may be that Allah will restrain the evil might of the
disbelievers. And Allah is Stronger in Might and Stronger in
punishing." [Qur'an (4):84]
what He meant as the goal for the disbelievers is fighting and
combat. So that connection is right, that we have incited and
roused for the killing of Americans and Jews. That is true.
Alright, Shaykh Usamah bin Laden, the al-Qai`dah Organization
is facing today a state that dominates the world militarily,
politically, and technologically. So with what reason does
the al-Qai`dah Organization, whose material capabilities don't
precisely come close to the capabilities that the USA has,
so with what logic can an organization, like al-Qai`dah, defeat
the USA militarily for example?
Alhamdulillah... I say that the battle isn't between
the al-Qai`dah Organization [tanzeem al-Qai`dah] and
the world Crusaders. The battle is between Muslims - the people
of Islam - and the world Crusaders. And that organization, with
the grace of Allah [bifadlillah], used to be with our
Afghan Mujaahideen brothers, and the people used to say words
like this and even stronger: "How could you defeat the
Soviet Empire ?" And at that time, the Soviet Empire was
a force that was very, very strong, which scared the whole world
and NATO used to shake in fear in front of the Soviet Empire.
So where is that strong force that Allah (subhannahu wa ta`aala)
has sent toward us [manna allahu `alayna] and our Mujaahideen
Soviet Empire has become - with Allah's grace - a figment of
the imagination [athran ba`da `ayn, lit. traces before the
eye]. Today, there is no more Soviet Empire, it split into
smaller states and Russia is left. So the One (Allah) who prolonged
us with one of His helping Hands and stabilized us (subhannahu
wa ta`aala) to defeat the Soviet Empire, is capable (subhannahu
wa ta`aala) to prolong us again and to allow us to defeat
America on the same land (subhannahu wa ta`aala), and
with the same sayings, and that is the grace of Allah [waa
dhaalika fadlullah] (subhannahu wa ta`aala). So we
believe that the defeat of America is something achievable -
with the permission of Allah (subhannahu wa ta`aala)
- and it is easier on us - with the permission of Allah (subhannahu
wa ta`aala) - than the defeat of the Soviet Empire previously.
How do you think it's easy? Why do you think it's easier?
We have tried...like our brothers who have engaged in battle
with the Americans, similar to the example in Somalia. We have
not found before a force that can be mentioned. There is a very
huge awe [haala] about America, which it uses to scare people
before it engages the battle. So our brothers that were here
in Afghanistan tried, and Allah has cleared the path for them
with some of the Mujaahideen in Somalia. So America left, dragging
behind the tails of humiliation, defeat and loss, without turning
back for anything [tajurru athyaal alkhayba wal hazimah wal
khusraan laa talwee `alaa shay'], and it retreated before
expected, and it forgot all that great media hype about the
New World Order, and how it was the master of that order, and
that it can do whatever it pleases. It forgot all those facts,
and it picked up its armies and it retreated in defeat with
Allah's grace (subhannahu wa ta`aala). So we tried combat
against the Russians, from '79 until '89, 10 years - with the
grace of Allah (subhannahu wa ta`aala) - then we continued
against the Communists in Afghanistan. Today we are at the end
of the second week, and what a difference like night and day
between both battles [shattaana shattaana bayna al-ma`rakatayn].
So we implore Allah (subhannahu wa ta`aala) to prolong
us with one of His helping Hands [yamduduna bimadadin min
`indihi] and to break America, for He is capable of that.
Alright Shaykh, in connection to the land, you have said that
we will defeat America on this land. Don't you think that
the existance of the al-Qai`dah Organization on the land of
Afghanistan is making the Afghan people pay a high price?
Well, that view is partial and incomplete, and only from one
angle. When we first came to Afghanistan, and when we came to
give victory to the Mujaahideen when the Russians entered, in
1399H (1979AD), the Saudi government officially asked us to
not enter Afghanistan. Due to my entry to Afghanistan, and due
to my family's closeness to the Saudi governmental system, a
letter arrived commanding Usamah not to enter Afghanistan, and
to stay with the Muhaajireen (immigrants) in Peshawar, because
in case the Russians were to imprison or capture Usamah, then
that would be proof showing Saudi backing of the Mujaahideen
against the Soviet Empire. And during that time, the whole world
shook in fear from the Soviet Empire, and I am not exaggerating
about this prohibition (to enter Afghanistan), so from their
point of view, this seemed damaging to them. They were forced
because of their opinions.
when we came to the Afghans during the first time, we endured
what we had to endure, in desire to liven the Islamic self [li
ihyaa' al-nafs al-muslima], and to safekeep the Muslim children
and offspring here, and for victory for the religion [deen].
And that is a duty on all the Muslims, not just the Afghans.
So if I went, or some of my brothers that came for jihaad, acted
upon this duty, (which is) to bring victory to our brothers
in Palestine, then that does not mean that Usamah alone has
to endure this, but it is a duty [waajib] on all of the
Islamic Nation [ummah] to endure this, because it is
in the Way of Allah [feesabilillah] and jihaad is designated
[muta`ayyin] today on all of us, on the Afghans and others,
and it is true that they endure, but this is an Islamic duty
[waajib shar`i] and it is a duty for them and others
to support this [feesabilillah]....