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THE UNRELEASED INTERVIEW
WITH USAMAH BIN LADEN
21st October 2001

Part 2

Part 1 >>> Part 3 >>> Part 4


Tayser Allouni: Let us go back to what happened...

Usamah bin Laden: .... and in addition to the matters related to the bombing of the Afghans that say that it is only due to us (the Mujaahideen), the reason is not personal. America didn't start by taking my money and didn't hurt me at all, but due to our incitement against the Jews and the Americans in protection of the Islamic Nation [difaa`an `an ummatil islaam], those words came from them. And it is a known fact that America is against the establishment of any Islamic state, and the Prince of Believers [Ameerul Mu'mineen, Mullah Muhammad `Umar of Kandahar] has declared that on more than one occasion, and so have a lot of the big students [talibs], indicating that they are targeted because of their religion [deen], not just because of the presence of Usamah bin Laden. And like he (Mullah `Umar) said, the British came and they were defeated in Afghanistan before Usamah was to be found here, and the Russians came, before we did, and now the Americans have come, and we implore Allah to defeat them like He defeated their previous allies.

TA: Let us go back to the transgressions that happened in New York and Washington. What is your analysis about what happened - its effect on America, and its effect on the Islamic world? The question in two parts, if you please.

UBL: I say the events that happened on Tuesday 11th September on New York and Washington, that is truly a great event in all measures, and it's claims until this moment are not over and are still continuing. And if the fall of the towers, with the twins on it's head, was an event that was huge, then consider the events that followed it... let us talk about the economic claims [tadaa`iyat iqtisaadiyah], which are still continuing.

According to their own admissions, the share of the losses on the Wall Street Market reached 16%. They said that this number is a record, which has never happened since the opening of the market more than 230 years ago. This large collapse has never happened. The gross amount that is traded in that market reaches 4 trillions dollars. So if we multiply 16% with $4 trillion to find out the loss that affected the stocks, it reaches $640 billion of losses from stocks, with Allah's grace (subhannahu wa ta`aala). So this amount, for example, is the budget [miizaniyah] of Sudan for 640 years. They have lost this, due to an attack that happened with the success of Allah lasting one hour only. The daily income of the American nation is $20 billion. The first week they didn't work at all due to the psychological shock of the attack, and even until today some don't work due to the attack. So if you multiply $20 billion by 1 week, it comes out to $140 billion, and it is even bigger than this. If you add it to the $640 billion, we've reached how much? Approximately $800 billion. The cost of the building losses and construction losses? Let us say more than $30 billion. Then they have fired or liquidated until today, or a couple of days ago, from the airline companies more than 170,000 employees. That includes cargo plane companies, and commercial airlines, and American studies and analysis have mentioned that 70% of the American people even until today still suffer from depression and psychological trauma, after the incident of the two towers, and the attack on the Defense Ministry, the Pentagon - thanks to Allah's grace (subhannahu wa ta`aala). One of the well-known American hotel companies, Intercontinental, has fired 20,000 employees - thanks to Allah's grace (subhannahu wa ta'aala). Those claims cannot be calculated by anyone due to their very large scale, multitude and complexity - and it is increasing thanks to Allah's grace (subhannahu wa ta`aala) - so watch as the amount reaches no less than $1 trillion by the lowest estimate - thanks to Allah's grace (subhannahu wa ta`aala) - due to these successful and blessed attacks. We implore Allah to accept those brothers within the ranks of the martyrs, and to admit them to the highest levels of Paradise.

But I mention that there are also other events that took place, bigger, greater and more dangerous than the collapse of the towers. It is that this Western civilization, which is backed by America, has lots its values and appeal [qiyamuhaa]. The immense materialistic towers were destroyed, which preach Freedom, and Human Rights, and Equality. It became a total mockery [hadhaa'an manthuura] and that clearly appeared when the US government interfered and banned the media outlets from airing our words which don't exceed a few minutes, because they felt that the truth started to appear to the American people, and that we truly aren't terrorists by the definition they want, but because we are being violated in Palestine, in Iraq, in Lebanon, in Sudan, in Somalia, in Kashmir, in the Philippines and in every place, and that this is a reaction from the young men of this nation [ummah] against the violations by the British Government. Therefore, they declared what they declared, and they ordered what they ordered, and they forgot everything they mentioned about Free Speech, and Unbiased Opinion and all those matters. So I say that Freedom and Rights in America, and Human Rights, have been sent forward to the guillotine with no return unless they are quickly reinstated.

The government will take the American people and the West in general will enter into a choking life, into an unsupportable hell, because of the fact that those governments have very strong ties, and are under the payroll, of the Zionist lobby, which serves the needs of Israel who kills our sons and our children without right so that they can keep on ruling with total control.

TA: As for the effects of these actions on the Islamic world, there has been a clash of opinions. There are some that say things that have been believed in the Islamic world, and you hear all the official statements, and the statements of the people that can make statements, always saying that those attacks are terrorist actions and that these are innocent civilians, and that we won't accept those attacks, and that those things don't concord with the modern Islamic religion, and along those lines. So what is your opinion concerning what you have been able to follow of news concerning what happens in the Islamic world with the network that you own or run all around the world?

UBL: I say that the events have proved in a very clear manner the magnitude of the terrorism America inflicts in the world. So Bush admitted that there can only be two kinds of people: one being Bush and his followers, and any nation that doesn't follow the Bush government, or the World Crusade, then they are guaranteed to be with the terrorists. So what kind of terrorism is more terrifying and clearer than that?

So a lot of countries that can't speak for themselves, followed that strong world terrorism, and were also forced to say at the beginning that they were with him (Bush), and they all know without any doubt that we fight to protect our brothers and our holy sites. So the declarations of the leaders, either in the East or the West, were that the causes and roots of terrorism have to be removed. After asking what they are, they said it is the Palestine issue. We being part of a fair issue, but in fear of America, they could not say that our issue is fair, so they call us terrorists and then ask us to fix the Palestine issue. So based on those recent events and what they ensued, Bush and Blair quickly moved and said that now is the time to create an independent nation for Palestine. Subhanallah [meaning, "Glory unto Allah," in this usage as "Amazing!"] !! During the last 10 years the time was not ready, only until the attacks happened??

So they won't wisen up without the language of beatings and killings. So like they kill us, without a doubt we have to kill them, until we obtain a balance in terror [tawaazun fil ru`b]. This is the first time that the scale of terror got closer between both sides, between the Muslims and the Americans in these recent times, and those Americans did to us whatever they pleased, and the victim isn't even allowed to cry. And then Clinton comes out and tells us that Israel has the right to defend itself, after the slaughter of Qanaa (in Lebanon). They didn't even give the Israelis a warning! And when the new President Bush came with Minister Colin Powell, within the first months of their rule, they said that they would move the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, and Jerusalem will be the eternal capital of Israel, and the Congress and the Senate clapped for them. That is hypocrisy beyond any hypocrisy, and this is a clear mistreatment.

They will not wisen unless the attacks fall on their heads, and with the grace of Allah (subhannahu wa ta`aala), the battle has moved inside America. We will strive to keep it going - with Allah's permission - until victory is attained or until we meet Allah (subhannahu wa ta`aala) (through martyrdom).

TA: But Shaykh, from what I see from your answers, you say them always about Palestine and about the Palestinian issue. So let me ask you the question, your latest statements, or precisely a statement that appeared a few years ago that preached killing Jews and Crusaders, and we remember that the title had between quotes a famous hadeeth, "Expel the mushrikeen (polytheists) from the Arabian peninsula"[narrated by al-Bukhaari (2932) and Muslim (3089)], you concentrated on the expulsion of the Americans from the Arabian peninsula. So in your latest speeches we see a decrease in that. You have put forth the Palestinian issue, or like you call it the Aqsa issue, to the forefront, and you moved the issue of the Haramain to a secondary spot so to speak. So what is your opinion or argument on this matter?

UBL: I say that with no doubt jihaad is mandatory on all Muslims [fard `ayn] to free the Aqsa, or to save the weak in Palestine and in Lebanon and in Iraq and in all Islamic lands, and there is no doubt that freeing the Arabian peninsula from the polytheists [mushrikeen] is also mandatory on all Muslims [fard `ayn].

And concerning the talk that Usamah has put the Palestinian issue to the forefront, that is not true. "Al-`Abd al-Faqir" has a speech from the year 1407H (1986AD) that incites Muslims to boycott American products, and I used to say that the Americans take our money and give it to the Jews so they can kill our children with it in Palestine. That is mandatory on all Muslims [fard `ayn] and this is mandatory on all Muslims [fard `ayn], and there are a lot of mandatory things [furood a`yaan] in jihaad, like Kashmir amongst others, and from the battle front that was created a few years ago, the title of which was called: "The Islamic Front of Jihaad Against the Jews and Crusaders" [al-Jabha al-Islaamiyya lil-Jihaad Dudda al-Yahood wal-Saliibiyeen].

So our mention of those two issues or two topics, is of utmost importance. So some of the events of recent times might push one issue over the other, so we move towards that direction, without ignoring the other.

TA: What are the events that have pushed you to the Palestinian issue?

UBL: In recent times, the new rise of the blessed Intifada, the Intifada of Rajab. It helped push towards that direction, and that was the biggest reason that helped this issue, and concerning our pushing, we only strive to do our duty without feeling religiously ashamed. All the above issues affect each other. The attack on the Americans concerning the Palestine issue helps in regards to the Haramain issue, and vice versa, and attacking the Americans because they are considered to be a protective shield for the Jews in the areas of Tabook (a Northern Saudi province close to Jordan, home of the King Faisal Air Base) and the eastern regions (of Saudia).

TA: Alright Shaykh, now concerning the Jews and the Crusaders, like you say, you have written fataawa concerning the presence of jihaad against the Jews and Crusaders. From what we have seen from other fataawa written by scholars, there are some that support you, but there are also some who argued and some who protested your fataawa. They say under which basis can we kill a Jew just because of his religion? Or the Crusader or the Nazarene (Christian), because of his religion only? So your fataawa have differed and don't have any relation with the fataawa of the other scholars.

UBL: Alhamdulillah. I will say that these issues have raised a lot of fataawa from the Muslims. In Pakistan, there are a lot of the fataawa that appeared from scholars, one of the biggest being Mufti Nizamudeen Shaamzi (Head legal advisor of the Taliban), and in the land of the Arabs, precisely the land of the Haramain, a lot of approved and repeated fataawa appeared. One of the best of them being that of Shaykh Hammood bin `Abdullah bin Uqla ash-Shu`aybee, may Allah bless his life, who is one of the biggest scholars in the homes of the Haramain, who incites the duty of fighting the Americans and fighting the Israelis in Palestine, making their blood and wealth permissible [yubihu dimaa'ihim wa amwaalihim]. Also appeared a fatwa from Shaykh Sulaymaan al-`Ulwaan, and also appeared a book written by one of the talibs of knowledge, The Truth About the Modern Crusader Wars [Haqiiqat al-Huroob al-Saliibiyah al-Jadeedah], and he denounced those who say that this fighting is invalid, and whoever disagrees with true sharee`ah, and spoke against other wrongdoings [mafaasiq]. Yes, so he wrote well, we implore Allah to bless him.

TA: What about the killing of innocent civilians?

UBL: Killing innocent civilians, like Americans and other educated people say, is something very weird to be said. I mean, who is the one that said that our children and our civilians are not innocents, and that their blood is permissible [mubaah] ? In the case we kill their civilians, the whole world yells at us from east to west, and America would start pushing its allies and puppets. Who is the one that said that our blood isn't blood and their blood is blood? Who is the one that declared this? What about the people that have been killed in our lands for decades? More than 1,000,000 children died in Iraq and are still dying, so why don't we hear people that cry or protest or anyone who reassures or anyone who gives condolences??!?

And it is said in truth of our Prophet (sallallahu `alayhi wasallam) in the hadeeth saheeh: "A woman has entered hell because of a cat it tied without giving it food or without letting it eat from the blessings of the earth." [narrated by al-Bukhaari (2236) and Muslim (2242)] And that is just because of a cat, so what about the millions of Muslims that are getting killed?? Where are the educated?? Where are the writers?? Where are the scholars?? Where are the free?? Where are the ones who have one atom of faith [imaan] in their hearts?? How do these people move when civilians die in the America, when we are killed everyday?? Everyday in Palestine, children are killed. There is a great dysfunction in people today, which needs to be stopped right away by all means, and to recalculate the numbers (of the dead). There is a strong instinct in humans, in which they lean towards the strong without feeling it, so when they talk about us, they know we will not answer them, and if they stand behind the lines of the governments and the Americans, they will think that they will feel something we don't.

A long time ago, one of the Kings that came on the ancient Arabs killed a man from the Arabs [story mentioned in the 85th Surah (al-Burooj), and narrated by Muslim (4/7148)], so the people became tamed to the fact that Kings kill humans. So the brother of the deceased stood in the front of the king and killed him, and when the victim who lost his brother was victorious, the people criticized him, saying: "You kill a King just because of your brother?" So who permitted that King? These are both equals souls, and the blood of the Muslims is equal, and in those times their blood was equal, so that gentle man replied: "My brother is my King." And today all our brothers in Palestine are our Kings, so we kill the Kings of disbelief [kufr] and the Kings of the Crusaders, and the civilians amongst the disbelievers, as opposed to the amount of our sons they kill, and that is correct both religiously and logically.

Go to next part (part 3)


This interview was obtained from Markaz Derasat and translated by 'Muawiya Ibn Abi Sufyan'

Source: http://www.islamicawakening.com/
We thank Islamic Awakening for permission to use and display information from their website.



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